Hamas doesn’t have any incentive right now because the Biden administration hasn’t given them or their funders a reason to compromise. The pressure must be put on Qatar and Iran, and there are many ways in which this can/could have been done. Look up Richard Goldberg’s suggestions. We have a ton of leverage over these two countries. Why this administration has chosen appeasement over strength has yet to be proven, but I have a pretty good guess. As you’ll soon see, an administration that doesn’t placate terrorists and their sponsors is much better for regional peace. I’d also suggest you listen to the voices of the Gulf states, who would view your position as weak and a reason not to seek further normalization with Israel. Israeli weakness means Arab states turn to Iran.
I definitely hear where you’re coming from, but I don’t think backing down simply to close the news cycle is the answer.
There’s no question that whether this war gets repeated again and again will depend on what’s done the day after. But keep in mind that whatever that ends up being will get out in danger if it’s announced now while Hamas had the time to plant seeds against it. That doesn’t mean there already is a plan, but it does mean that the odds of our finding out about one before the war ends aren’t good.
Israel does have conscientious people near the top. It is possible to turn the page, but that can’t happen with Hamas capable of rebuilding itself
I totally agree, but here's my issue (and I take it up in Part 2 of this topic where I address the responses I got to this article when I originally posted): what IS "done the day after"? Who governs? Who pays? No one knows. There isn't even a draft of a plan.
Most of the responses against my argument--and it's being done again in this very comment section--is basically a varation of "but Hamas must be destroyed, don't you understand that?!" They don't seem to get that they're preaching to the choir - no one other than the anti-Israel useful idiots think that Hamas should still be running Gaza after this war. But that ignores 2 crucial elements that it is our responsibility as Jews to figure out: 1) the Israeli government's role in getting the hostages back and ending the war; and 2) what type of occupation (and yes, it will be an occupation by a foreign government, be it Israel or otherwise) of Gaza will occur after, and for how long?
As far as getting the hostages back goes, there have been some times where it seemed like the Israeli government might have missed an opportunity to make a deal to get SOME of the hostages out (I think it’s very important to keep that part in mind). I haven’t seen any case where Israel gave up an opportunity that would do that for a cost other than a permanent ceasefire, which would leave Hamas in power and leave other hostages still there.
Once that is the case, the next question has to be, what can Israel do to get the hostages back that is isn’t doing already?
As far as the plan for the day after, while there have been some vague ideas put on the table , I think a lot of it is also dependent on how the war actually ends. Even if they could put a plan together and somehow tell us without ruining it, the situation on the ground is also changing too rapidly. For example, if another Arab country in the region (or several) steps in to help, how much risk are they taking of provoking a conflict between themselves and Hezbollah and/or Iran? Just a couple of months ago, the answer to that might’ve been a big risk. Now that’s very up in the air
Let me preface by saying my concern is not for “Palestinian” civilians, it is for Israeli civilians and soldiers (sue me) You will not find a black person anywhere grieving for deaths of Confederate civilians, the occupation of Confederate land, or the total destruction of Atlanta, and Richmond. Why would they? If we are hated for fighting back, that is not my problem, it is their’s. I’ve been hearing for 50 years now that when Israel defends itself it just creates more terrorists. Maybe Gazans are angry, but Israelis are a hundred times angrier, and have every right to be. Yes I want this war to end quickly, and it should have ended a year ago, but the government refused to do what it should have done to win decisively. They were more concerned with pleasing Joe Biden and the international media. They are obsessed with being liked. As with the American Civil War, peace will come with total destruction of the enemy's infrastructure, and occupation of the enemy’s land. If Israel lacks the stomach for this, well then maybe they should just withdraw from Gaza and wait for the next atrocity
I tried to read this with an open mind. I want to understand the pov of Zionists who are to the left of center. That said, the only thing I agreed with is that we've now got a another generation of Gazans who hate us even more. That's a given. The rest, to me, sounds like a whole lot of "oh no, now they'll REALLY hate us." It's victim- blaming and naive. The campus hatred didn't start in October 2023. It began at least as far back as the mid-1980s, and I know that because I was there.
There's no acceptable deal for the release of the remaining hostages other than full release and total surrender. Every prisoner we release will kill more Jews. Period.
Except that what you just said is inaccurate. We have been there for thousands of years, and your inability to accept fact is not problem, and certainly not worth my energy.
Gazans hated the israeli and the jews many years before october 7, 2023 . Considering what is happening around the world, in Amsterdaam , in Paris , in London, everywhere in Europe , in the US, in Canada, I hope you have noticed by now the « globalization of intifada » that starts with the jews and will continue with all the others who are not muslim. The left only wanted to stick to their woke ideology that viewed the islamists as victims and as voctims they could only , by essence, be good people.
Absolutely Hamas has won the PR war but don’t act like they did anything brilliant recently they were preaching to an eager choir. Our universities where ideas trickle down have rotted from purging centrists they never had too many people on the right but there was “relative” ideological diversity. The combination of DEI/wokeness hiring loads of people, foreign donations to build history depts, and the HR led bureaucratic purges that were already
well under way decades ago was a perfect storm for the illiberal echo chamber that typifies academia now. I laugh at the stupidity and moral shallowness of going to a Broadway show where it’s acknowledged we’re on Native American land. Well you know you could…give it back.
If you don’t think Hamas can be destroyed you could use defeatist logic for any other wars. Hamas is not a scattered terror group and even those will have targets and sources of income. The issue that concerns you is does this require colonialism. It does in the short term at least. My feeling is a generation. Israel will need to annex strategic buffer areas whether or not it ruffles feathers. This is a legitimate response to attempted genocide and that is what Oct 7 was. I don’t know a thing about Netanyahu’s domestic record and I know it’s a sport to malign him but unfortunately he was right about many key things and that’s a tragedy. Oslo radicalized people as did the Gaza withdrawal. You can’t wish that away.
If the world was on Israel’s side and to blame Israel for the Nazi and Soviet anti semitisms that infected much of the Middle East and academia and trickled down (let’s not pretend that there weren’t a huge number of academics in Germany and the ussr who supported anti semitism with zeal- and of course the current bigots look at Nazis and Soviet anti semites like heathens who didn’t lay out a “moral” ideology just like theirs, which they’ve parsed from) but supposing the world wasn’t suffering again from an outburst of anti semitism and feeding the croc hoping it would eat them last, consider the last decades western complicit. UNRWA is a dedicated refugee group. Empirically Palestinian refugees who are technically displaced people and this shouldn’t be hereditary- are well off by middle eastern standards or should be if Hamas didn’t embezzle so much aid but they aren’t objectively the neediest refugees and receive a lopsided amount of assistance predicated pretty much on nothing. The schools run Nazi propaganda. UNRWA is loaded with Hamas agents and supporters and this status quo was bolstered by the west. The west largely paid for Hamas weapons and tunnel network.
This all puts Israel in a precarious position to occupy and denazify the neighboring region itself and hope for slow change over time. Or the areas could be left to their own devices with only Qatari and Iranian aid and Israel doing what it needs to to guarantee its security. It’s only a complex situation because of anti semitism Israel rejectionism which is against all the needs of the Palestinians other than murderous hatred to replace any failings or desires with a eliminiationist dream when it’s obvious the age of Aquarius or freedom or prosperity would not be ushered in thereafter. They don’t need to be western but they can’t be terrorists and support terrorism. That includes against dissenters and gay people and women etc. I’m not holding out for a 180 but these impulses and practices can moderate. Hamas banned a women’s marathon. Maybe they were afraid they would flee. You have to notice the inversion. Hamas throws pa people off the roof and Israel is throwing Palestinians off the roof. Everything Hamas has done Israel is accused of. Or it didn’t happen. Israel is fighting a war that has to be fought. I vehemently disagree goals aren’t achievable. I think when a country or in this case proto state loses horribly views change. That’s why support for Hamas goes down in Gaza but is high in West Bank. It’s all nice to have megalomaniacal fantasies of extermination until the roosters come home to roost. I don’t think the average Palestinian thinks October 7th was invented I think people who don’t live there are prone to absorb and disseminate this nonsense.
Israel has done enormous damage to Gaza but it’s a small fraction of what they could’ve done and it is not a scandal or even close in comparison to other armed conflicts and wars. No one wants to compare it except to select slices bits versus the whole. Israel is a moral fighter but war is an evil just sometimes a necessary one. Israel isn’t only fighting Hamas. It’s fighting its support network. Regular civilians. You can ignore polls and videos of civilians participating in looting violence and kidnapping but a safe bet would be somewhere in the 80% support zone. That number isn’t solid obviously bc people are terrorized by Hamas but let’s not hold illusions that’s why Israel is in the situation it’s in. You’d have to be blind and deaf and dumb to think Palestinians as a group not all individuals are against Hamas. Of course the kids are victims of indoctrination from a young age. I’m not keen on killing people for their views but anyone who participated in Oct 7 or anything to aid Hamas in their violence is not garnering sympathy from me period. Only w hypocrisy to the highest degree can you have a group occupying hospitals using human shields strapping bombs to kids and all you do is find fault with the country trying to defeat them and if you do compare you attribute barbaric acts to desperation. They’re desperate to end an occupation they could’ve ended many times it was ended in Gaza. No problem w the full Egyptian blockade but a problem w the partial Israel one which is entirely validated given the constant abuse of mixed use material by Hamas. They even confiscate food aid and sell it at extortionate levels. But look away because Israel. I don’t share your reservations about defeating Hamas and sending a strong message. The issue is does Israel have the resolve. And what after. And I wouldn’t waste any mental space about well they’re being radicalized. Seriously? My Question is having seen Oct 7 and reading memri.org how much more radicalized can they get?
I agree pretty well with most of what you've written here, my only reservation being that you seem to suggest both Iran and Qatar are part of the solution in Gaza, post war? I would strongly suggest that both Qatar and Iran are major parts of the problem, not the solution. Also, as a general observation both to yourself and others, everything seems focussed on Israel and Gaza but this war is a multifront war, of which Hamas and PIJ in Gaza are only Iranian pawns.
Europe is putting itself in a precarious position some exceptions with their green energy policies. And notice the non dent in global average temp (what is the point of a policy that excludes China and India) and fuel is more money and less reliable. It’s a loser all around and eco people are mostly phonies and frauds as far as I’m concerned. Biden came to Venezuela for oil Venezuela a failed communist state with a western hostile rolex wearing dictator Europe goes to Russia, enough said. This is how we’re fixing things not like France with nuclear energy. It takes bill gates and his high energy ai projects to build a nuclear reactor. I think part of why Trump was elected wasn’t Iran specifically for most people but rather the unserious foreign policy which is NOT isolationist (you’ll always have those advocates. I myself find it unconvincing for the same reason I find pure libertarianism unconvincing. You’ll pay it’s just a matter of when and how much. Naturally this does not extend to any and every intervention or alliance) but the American policy has been with the exception of a brief Trump interregnum ACCOMMODATIONIST w drastic results. I hope Trump continues his policy of weakening Iran and that the Houthis are sent a very unmistakeable message that they don’t control the open seas. My point wasn’t that Iran isn’t a sworn enemy of the west it is (the govt) and that Qatar isn’t an ally and shouldn’t be there for Middle East credibility but they are but rather that they’re not going to stop funding the likes of terror groups and maybe with Qatar there is some small nod to Palestinian welfare (I’m convinced it’s not a big nod bc best case they know where most of this aid is going) but if that’s the case that will not be sufficient to get where we are now. Not having huge western aid (should all be with enforced conditions) will choke off some of the lifeblood of terror planning as will controlling the poorly controlled weapons flow from Egypt (smuggling) and wrecking as many tunnels as possible not easy. We have no power to stop Iran and Qatar from funding what they fund we can only make it harder to do. We do have questionable allies but there are times you get in bed with the worst like Stalin in ww2 because you need to so trying to work with “allies” that also have their own intense interests diverging from ours is tricky. Right now there’s nothing to do with Iran but weaken it. Qatar maybe but very provisionally and cautiously. America has a huge problem playing what they like to call 4D chess. America also has a huge problem with Iranian and Chinese spies, corrupt woke one party leadership in our security services(and who knows how far it flows down bc people tend to leave or not apply when they can’t handle the management) and a lack of capable people who didn’t just study the Mideast but were born there lived there or were otherwise steeped in the culture but appreciate and prefer the west for values centered around liberty and progress. I think America would’ve benefited from some of our afghani allies versus sowing chaos and throwing many of these people to the wolves. I think the effect of the afghan withdrawal as much as it was negatively publicized is understated. It was done inexcusably hastily and turned into a huge mess where the Taliban were able to sell it as a victory and the imperial nations saw not only a lack of American mettle but literally bolting with the tail between the legs and a lack of loyalty frankly. This does figure into calculations of other world leaders.
"Israel’s wars always end in a few months. They would never fight a war longer than necessary." From my point of view, Israel has fought wars for less time than necessary in the past, failing to win decisive victories and leaving people with the idea that the country will deal only with the proximate problem, not the underlying cause. Now that Israel is at last going for the greater win, it is a bit strange for someone who claims to support the Israeli project to get upset that some people are being mean about it.
"They've fought for less time than necessary" - I've heard this argument a few times in the last year, from completely reasonable people. I mean, maybe easy to say in hindsight...but war is hell for anyone involved and Israel's goal has always been to minimize the total casualties. If I had a family member in uniform, I wouldn't want a war to go on 1 day longer than it needed to...but again, a lot of that is only known in the future through hindsight.
"Securing the release of the hostages needed to be the main focus from Day 1."
I am not Israeli, I am not even Jewish (just my wife), so I have to confess to having somewhat limited knowledge here—but I have wonder if this is true or if it even makes sense.
Wouldn't prioritizing the release of the hostages just lead to another Gilad Shalit situation where hundreds of terrorists, many with Jewish blood on their hands, are given their freedom to plot more attacks? How many more Sinwars are sitting in Israel prisons waiting to take their revenge? And we know any hostage release would require these people being freed by the hundreds and we know they will be planning terrorist attacks as soon as they can.
I do understand the plight of Jews in the West—my wife and my Jewish family deal with all these explosions of Jew hate every day—and I also understand that it seems there will be another generation of Palestinians coming right behind the current one who are raised on Jew hate and will give their lives to attacking Israel. But that being said, I think the total destruction of Hamas has to be the main goal and has to be pursued no matter how long it takes. Hamas brought this upon themselves, Hamas has committed crimes that make them enemies of humanity and they need to be extinguished as much as Nazis or Confederates did, and also: maybe if it becomes recognized that the price of the Eternal Infatada is the total destruction of their territory, maybe (just maybe) the Palestinians will finally figure out that peaceful coexistence is their only way forward.
I realize it's easy for me to say these things as I am not Jewish and don't live in Israel, but the Islamo-Leftist alliance needs to be crushed, and letting Hamas survive will only embolden them. The sad truth is that Jews will be hated no matter what, so they might as well destroy their enemies and let them sit in rubble long enough that maybe they come to their senses.
A lot of Jews share your views. You come off as far more educated on this issue than most. So I'll talk to you as if you're one of us.
One of the things that upsets me about the response that I am typically getting to this article is "but Hamas must be destroyed!" I am under no illusions that Hamas must be taken out of power - but no one can really define what "destroyed" really means, at least to the point where the war can be over. I think that's deliberate on Bibi's part as it's clear to me at this point that he is deliberately dragging out the war. And in many ways, that goal appears to run counter to getting the hostages back.
Thanks! I love being talked to as being "one of us", being considered Jewish makes me feel like I just gained at least 10 IQ points! ;)) (I am from Queens NYC and went to summer camp at Kutshers in the Catskills, so I've been around Jews my whole life.)
As an American of a certain age, I do know that Netanyahu has been around quite awhile now, that he is a conservative and very polarizing. (My wife's family is from the Main Line PA, so we even know some people who knew him in his younger days.) But I have to confess ignorance about the full reality of Israel politics and the specifics of his recent actions and political machinations.
I think the one objection I have here (which is maybe more intellectual than moral or political) is that I see my Jewish friends publicly vehemently denouncing him, as issuing some denunciation of either him or of Israel or of the IDF (or some combo thereof) has now become the mandatory minimum that's required for liberal Jews to not be attacked. And this makes me wonder how bad or wrong etc he may be or if he is painted this way as a way for Jews in the West to save face and ease their social pressure. As I said, I don't know enough to answer that, but I've become a bit skepical about attacks on him, as I see people making them all the time who know less about Israeli politics than even I do. (Hope that makes sense.)
But my overall main feeling is that it's important for the Jewish state to survive and to thrive combined with an appreciation of Israel for fighting and killing the theocratic terrorists of Hamas and Hezbollah, while Western liberals cower and hide behind platitudes. I do agree that at some point pursuing peace will become more important than pursuing war, but I can't say I know when that moment will arrive. Thanks for your piece.
Thank you for your thoughtful contributions - they actually mean more coming from an "outsider" (although you're at least half Jewish from my perspective! haha). You definitely raise some interesting points - I'm going to focus on one: "issuing some denunciation of either him or of Israel or of the IDF (or some combo thereof) has now become the mandatory minimum that's required for liberal Jews to not be attacked."
This is absolutely a major issue among Jews like me. They feel compelled to express views that will enable them to maintain membership in their "circles." I mean much of it is genuine - many both here and in Israel really do believe that he's a completely failed leader. It's really no different than saying you think Trump sucks with that same group of people. Put it to you this way: do you think the left's attacks on Trump are "wrong"? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. Same issue with Bibi.
—do you think the left's attacks on Trump are "wrong"?
I think Trump is a deranged babbling buffoon who I can't listen to for more than 2 mins without making my skin crawl, yet at the same time I also cringe at all the hysteria of his opponents, that he's a Nazi fascist etc. I can understand hating Trump and I can understand voting for him, though I will never do either.
And I do see the similarity (though I can't imagine that Bibi uses the same stupid ugly language), and I have been cornered by friends demanding that I denounce Trump, but I think the main difference I see is that my wife and her family and friends are asked/demanded to denounce Bibi in a much more heated pointed way—denounce him, denounce the war, denounce Zionism etc—that simply never occurs with other ethnic or religious groups. Muslims in America are never intimidated into denouncing their various Ayatollahs and Chinese the same with their govt and its crimes.
I'm not Jewish, but once you see the special way Jews are attacked and what is demanded of them and how the Jewish state has become the world's pariah, I become more sensitive and paranoid than Philip Roth!
But to maybe get us back to where we started, I think Trump governed the first time more or less like a mainstream conservative (except for his erratic juvenile behavior), and the only thing I can think of that he did that no mainstream conservative would do was his "Muslim ban"—banning immigration from Muslim countries.
Which I think speaks to this fault line in the West: how do we deal with people from other countries (esp Muslim) that have no experience w liberal values and are often beholden to hateful theocratic anti-Western anti-Jewish ideologies? Of course we in America are far away from the frontlines here, unlike Israel, but in the current post-10/7 environment I'm leaning my support toward the politicians who at least accept and address this issue, as opposed to the liberals who deny it.
So just so we’re clear - denouncing Bibi is not the same thing as denouncing the war and it’s definitely not the same as denouncing Zionism. And yes, we’ve seen many examples this past year especially of Jews doing all of the above in their effort to maintain membership in their circles (the clearest example I can think of was the Oscar winner’s speech for that Holocaust film—I’m blanking on the names of both—where he slammed Israel).
Yes, some of the rhetoric just comes from ignorance of Israeli history, etc. and they’re just going by what they’ve heard from the media and from JVP types — but in that regard, they’re no different from the non-Jews engaging in the same behavior. It’s definitely possible to have a reasoned discussion about all of these things (Bibi, the war, and yes even Zionism), it’s just that few people want to, they would rather resort to tired platitudes.
BiBi is not being allowed by the Biden government to actually finish the war!
Look at Ukraine! Did you know that Zelenskyy had already signed an agreement with Putin to end the war on April 30,2022 when Biden told Boris Johnson the then PM of UK to go to Kyiv and ask Zelenskyy to tear up the agreement and carry on the war that US, UK and NATO would help to win the war ?
It's very naive and sorry, but very clear that you do not live in Israel. You cannot imagine the complexity of what is going on. None of us ever feels safe. We do not want the release of more terrorists to kill us. Yes my heart breaks for the hostages and everyone else every day, and yes I would have done the same as their relatives to try to release them. Yes, I realise i'm a hypocrite. The solution was for gazans to release them, many hostages were in civilian homes some time or the other. Putting blame on Netanyahu is trying to distract the blame from rapists killers and kidnappers.
You are right, I don't live in Israel--and I'm absolutely allowed to have an opinion on this issue. I live in the diaspora where we have seen troubling amounts of antisemitism since this war broke out. Do you honestly think that Israelis are the only ones who view this as "complex"? And yes, Bibi does share some responsibility for the continuation of the war - not the same type of responsibility as the Hamas psychopaths who started it, but he shares some of the responsibility for ending it. That is true for any world leader on the side of any war.
If you only noticed the antisemitism now, then congratulations, you've had a good life! And I do not mean this in a tongue in cheek way, but really it is a blessing. You were lucky, most were not in various degrees. Israel has nothing to do with it. There was a hatred before and there will be a hatred after. Yes, it's distressing to accept, no one wants to, we self delude to survive but the courage is to accept reality, not find another jew to blame. The myth of "good jew" was made to put one against the other. You'd both be killed equally in Gaza.
I live in the diaspora as well and have been shocked by the antisemitism. However, targeting diaspora Jews based on an Israeli war is the result of pure bigotry and nothing else. It’s also part of Iranian and Hamas propaganda. Not for one second did I ever blame Israel for the rise of antisemitism here. I believe the war is just but even if I didn’t, the fact that people are targeting diaspora Jews just shows the outrage has nothing to do with Israel. It’s just another pretext for justifying Jew hatred. Putting even one iota of responsibility onto Israel for increasing antisemitism plays right into terroristic propaganda and shouldn’t be entertained by anyone. Do you ever wonder why you don’t see random Russian Americans targeted for the war in Ukraine, or Chinese Americans targeted for the crimes of China? It’s the same reason you didn’t protest outside a mosque on 10/8. Because doing so would be clear bigotry, and nothing else.
How is PM Netanyahu "prolonging the war" and "stoking it"? Hamas is prolonging the war by refusing to negotiate a cease-fire short of Israeli capitulation, surely? The Biden administration has prolonged the war by tying the IDF's hands behind their backs and making Israel conform to standards of warfare that frankly no other country including the USA would ever even contemplate adhering to. Leading US military people like John Spencer, Chair of Urban War Studies at West Point, and others state quite clearly that the expectations placed upon Israel are both unreasonable and unreachable. The war could have been over long ago if it weren't for US meddling. And, frankly, the notion that Bibi is prolonging and stoking the war fits nicely with Hamas propaganda, not to mention leftist hatchet jobs on his character.
Amazing. And not in the good way. You evidently don't think "all eyes on Rafa" and biden's threats to withhold arms shipments had anything to do with prolonging the war.
Israel is beholding to America for many of its weapon systems. That is a double edged sword that is too often held over Israel's neck to please American political calculations.
With Trump now US President-elect and the Abraham Accords still American policy from his last term, does it ever seem to anyone that Gaza is being turned into a big highway with Jared Kushner planning real estate development along Gaza´s Mediterranean border? I was saddened to hear last week that an Israeli construction worker deployed to bulldoze bloated bodies killed himself rather than go back to do it again.
This is a quagmire with no easy answers. Israel lost the PR war in the West, but I think that loss was already in place thanks to the useful idiots of JVP and other like-minded dupes. It's no secret that Hamas couldn't build expansive tunnels--designed with entrances and exits under strategic soft targets of schools, mosques, hospitals, and other such community centers that should never be attacked--but more to the point, never should be used as shields for terrorist bent on destroying Israel. So when Israel bombs a known nest of Hamas terrorists, and it just *happens* to be under a kindergarten, well...time for JVP to whip up the outrage against Israel.
There is no question that everything you posit about Netenyahu is spot on. He could have and should have done more right up front. But we are dealing with terrorists, who don't believe in negotiation. Just death, and at the expense of their own people. Dead Palestinians make for more global hatred against Israel overall, and Jews everywhere by proxy. Hamas and their backers in Iran and elsewhere have a keen knowledge on how to exploit wordwide antisemitism to their best advantage. I disagree with you about Golda Meir's words. It seems to me that they are just as relevant as ever. Hamas--and the rest of the world--would love for an Israel ceasefire. Within a week after any ceasefire (if that long), Hamas would be implementing a strategy that mostly likely is already in place. They know public sentiment is on their side as long as they can whip up more hatred for Israel and the diaspora. That's why their outposts are beneath carefully-chosen locations. How dare Israel bomb a school!
How dare Hamas use Iranian money to build up a tunnel system for continued attacks on Israel, rather than help the people Hamas claims to be defending.
Hamas wants a state of perpetual war. They know Israel is the eternal "bad guy." Witness all the "protests" around the world on the night of October 7, 2023, when Israel hadn't fired a shot into Gaza--they were too busy accounting for the dead, dead that the world didn't care about as was demonstrated time and again in the days and weeks and months that followed. Every Jew was put on notice. Either atone for Israel or else.
Israel has been under attack long before 1948. Had they not fought back, then and now, it would cease to be. And we would cease to be without it. Netenyahu is using the slaughter of October 7 to his own means. He needs to go, with a more reasoned leader in his place. But even then, would Hamas quit? Never. That's a cold, hard reality.
I think that unfortunately there is very little room for manoeuvre. He believes that only force will achieve the release of hostages and sadly he is right unless Israel stops the war and they claim victory while regaining the control of Gaza. Backed by Iranian money, by international money and Qarar money they will resume their deadly fight to eradicate Israel while the Muslim Brothers will continue organizing pogroms around the world before attacking the rest of non muslim population in Western democracies. We are in for a hundred-years war and we cannot escape fighting this aggressive Islamist endeavor of conquest. Israel is just the tip of the iceberg !!!!!
I am not sure that Hamas was EVER ready to release the hostages. What incentive did they ever have? The only circumstance that might convince them to release hostages was the cessation of war. And then what ? They would claim victory, retain the control of Gaza and do it again. Ghazi , one of their leaders said it clearly. We will repeat october 7 again and again until we erase the sionist entity for good . They can’t be accused of acting hypocritically….. so Israel has no choice but destroying the military capacity of Hamas even if we all have to lose some of our soul while our hostages die every day, just like our soldiers who search house after house to minimize civilian casualties. Israel has no choice.
What will happen next cannot be determined in an abstract way. It will depend on the political situation prevailing then in the region, in particular what will happen in Iran. What will Trump decide to do about the mollahs will be decisive. If Israel and the US destroy the nuclear capacities of Iran the whole Middle East and the whole Western world will breathe more easily. And only then will it be possible to see what is the best path to take for dealing with Gaza. In the framework of resuming the Abraham Agreements , Saoudi Arabia might accept to manage a protectorate over Gaza for a decade or two to deradicalize the gazaouis .
But sure, I am dreaming . But you surely also remember Martin Luther King « I have a dream » . I believe in the power of dreams .
Are you worried about a bad reflection on you or about the lives of your fellow Jews? Because what I hear is more about you. But I would probably start with a simple question: what does “liberal” Jew mean opposing to a Jew?
And that's the problem. To claim that Bibi is doing the wrong thing, you need to show that there is something better to be doing.
Right now, under his leadership, Israel has seriously reduced the danger from both Hamas and Hezbollah, and weakened Iran. This has actually brought praise from Arabs in Syria and Lebanon, who have also seen Hezbollah as their enemy. It has also brought praise from many Iranians.
As a result, he is currently much more popular in Israel than previously. What Israelis experience is very different from what those of us in the Diaspora see (other than those of us with Israeli relatives).
In general, a war continues as long as at least one side wants it to. A cease fire just gives the losing side time to rearm. Israel has made that mistake with Hamas many times. It would be irresponsible for Bibi to end this war without rendering Hamas unable to launch other than minimal attacks - and without preventing it and UNRWA from indocrinating future generations of Gazans to hate Jews all over the world.
I’m wondering if Israel will take back Gaza since the Palestinians have only had it since 2005. As for Netanyahu, I’ve seen Israeli protests for years trying to get him out of office.
Jill, I've appreciated your perspective at times, but I feel like this piece is indulging in Netanyahu Derangement Syndrome. I have a beef with him, but it's not about the war effort - it's entirely about Israeli domestic policy and the devil's bargain he made with the religious right.
I beg you to read and listen to Israelis like Haviv Rettig Gur, Micah Goodman, and Einat Wilf. Or check out The Strong Horse by Lee Smith to deepen your understanding of Israel's neighbors. The American liberal, multicultural perspective is dangerous when applied in Israel. Look at the tragedy of the peace-minded kibbutzniks living in the Gaza envelope who were massacred so horrifically in part because their Palestinian "friends" and employees gave detailed maps to Hamas. They were the most compassionate, the most hopeful Israeli Jews, and the butchers of Gaza did not care.
You're assuming that Hamas has any incentive to do what you're proposing.
…and then how do you get back the hostages?
Hamas doesn’t have any incentive right now because the Biden administration hasn’t given them or their funders a reason to compromise. The pressure must be put on Qatar and Iran, and there are many ways in which this can/could have been done. Look up Richard Goldberg’s suggestions. We have a ton of leverage over these two countries. Why this administration has chosen appeasement over strength has yet to be proven, but I have a pretty good guess. As you’ll soon see, an administration that doesn’t placate terrorists and their sponsors is much better for regional peace. I’d also suggest you listen to the voices of the Gulf states, who would view your position as weak and a reason not to seek further normalization with Israel. Israeli weakness means Arab states turn to Iran.
I definitely hear where you’re coming from, but I don’t think backing down simply to close the news cycle is the answer.
There’s no question that whether this war gets repeated again and again will depend on what’s done the day after. But keep in mind that whatever that ends up being will get out in danger if it’s announced now while Hamas had the time to plant seeds against it. That doesn’t mean there already is a plan, but it does mean that the odds of our finding out about one before the war ends aren’t good.
Israel does have conscientious people near the top. It is possible to turn the page, but that can’t happen with Hamas capable of rebuilding itself
I totally agree, but here's my issue (and I take it up in Part 2 of this topic where I address the responses I got to this article when I originally posted): what IS "done the day after"? Who governs? Who pays? No one knows. There isn't even a draft of a plan.
Most of the responses against my argument--and it's being done again in this very comment section--is basically a varation of "but Hamas must be destroyed, don't you understand that?!" They don't seem to get that they're preaching to the choir - no one other than the anti-Israel useful idiots think that Hamas should still be running Gaza after this war. But that ignores 2 crucial elements that it is our responsibility as Jews to figure out: 1) the Israeli government's role in getting the hostages back and ending the war; and 2) what type of occupation (and yes, it will be an occupation by a foreign government, be it Israel or otherwise) of Gaza will occur after, and for how long?
No question.
As far as getting the hostages back goes, there have been some times where it seemed like the Israeli government might have missed an opportunity to make a deal to get SOME of the hostages out (I think it’s very important to keep that part in mind). I haven’t seen any case where Israel gave up an opportunity that would do that for a cost other than a permanent ceasefire, which would leave Hamas in power and leave other hostages still there.
Once that is the case, the next question has to be, what can Israel do to get the hostages back that is isn’t doing already?
As far as the plan for the day after, while there have been some vague ideas put on the table , I think a lot of it is also dependent on how the war actually ends. Even if they could put a plan together and somehow tell us without ruining it, the situation on the ground is also changing too rapidly. For example, if another Arab country in the region (or several) steps in to help, how much risk are they taking of provoking a conflict between themselves and Hezbollah and/or Iran? Just a couple of months ago, the answer to that might’ve been a big risk. Now that’s very up in the air
The war in one form or another has been going on for 3700 years. One can only deal with it and fight back.
Let me preface by saying my concern is not for “Palestinian” civilians, it is for Israeli civilians and soldiers (sue me) You will not find a black person anywhere grieving for deaths of Confederate civilians, the occupation of Confederate land, or the total destruction of Atlanta, and Richmond. Why would they? If we are hated for fighting back, that is not my problem, it is their’s. I’ve been hearing for 50 years now that when Israel defends itself it just creates more terrorists. Maybe Gazans are angry, but Israelis are a hundred times angrier, and have every right to be. Yes I want this war to end quickly, and it should have ended a year ago, but the government refused to do what it should have done to win decisively. They were more concerned with pleasing Joe Biden and the international media. They are obsessed with being liked. As with the American Civil War, peace will come with total destruction of the enemy's infrastructure, and occupation of the enemy’s land. If Israel lacks the stomach for this, well then maybe they should just withdraw from Gaza and wait for the next atrocity
Indeed, thank you.
I tried to read this with an open mind. I want to understand the pov of Zionists who are to the left of center. That said, the only thing I agreed with is that we've now got a another generation of Gazans who hate us even more. That's a given. The rest, to me, sounds like a whole lot of "oh no, now they'll REALLY hate us." It's victim- blaming and naive. The campus hatred didn't start in October 2023. It began at least as far back as the mid-1980s, and I know that because I was there.
There's no acceptable deal for the release of the remaining hostages other than full release and total surrender. Every prisoner we release will kill more Jews. Period.
Antisemitism on college campuses has always been a problem, you're absolutely right. But what we've seen in the last year is truly next level.
Read the room. Your Nazi answer is pathetic.
I'm well aware, but to imply that Israel's response is partially to blame, just no.
Except that what you just said is inaccurate. We have been there for thousands of years, and your inability to accept fact is not problem, and certainly not worth my energy.
Gazans hated the israeli and the jews many years before october 7, 2023 . Considering what is happening around the world, in Amsterdaam , in Paris , in London, everywhere in Europe , in the US, in Canada, I hope you have noticed by now the « globalization of intifada » that starts with the jews and will continue with all the others who are not muslim. The left only wanted to stick to their woke ideology that viewed the islamists as victims and as voctims they could only , by essence, be good people.
Absolutely Hamas has won the PR war but don’t act like they did anything brilliant recently they were preaching to an eager choir. Our universities where ideas trickle down have rotted from purging centrists they never had too many people on the right but there was “relative” ideological diversity. The combination of DEI/wokeness hiring loads of people, foreign donations to build history depts, and the HR led bureaucratic purges that were already
well under way decades ago was a perfect storm for the illiberal echo chamber that typifies academia now. I laugh at the stupidity and moral shallowness of going to a Broadway show where it’s acknowledged we’re on Native American land. Well you know you could…give it back.
If you don’t think Hamas can be destroyed you could use defeatist logic for any other wars. Hamas is not a scattered terror group and even those will have targets and sources of income. The issue that concerns you is does this require colonialism. It does in the short term at least. My feeling is a generation. Israel will need to annex strategic buffer areas whether or not it ruffles feathers. This is a legitimate response to attempted genocide and that is what Oct 7 was. I don’t know a thing about Netanyahu’s domestic record and I know it’s a sport to malign him but unfortunately he was right about many key things and that’s a tragedy. Oslo radicalized people as did the Gaza withdrawal. You can’t wish that away.
If the world was on Israel’s side and to blame Israel for the Nazi and Soviet anti semitisms that infected much of the Middle East and academia and trickled down (let’s not pretend that there weren’t a huge number of academics in Germany and the ussr who supported anti semitism with zeal- and of course the current bigots look at Nazis and Soviet anti semites like heathens who didn’t lay out a “moral” ideology just like theirs, which they’ve parsed from) but supposing the world wasn’t suffering again from an outburst of anti semitism and feeding the croc hoping it would eat them last, consider the last decades western complicit. UNRWA is a dedicated refugee group. Empirically Palestinian refugees who are technically displaced people and this shouldn’t be hereditary- are well off by middle eastern standards or should be if Hamas didn’t embezzle so much aid but they aren’t objectively the neediest refugees and receive a lopsided amount of assistance predicated pretty much on nothing. The schools run Nazi propaganda. UNRWA is loaded with Hamas agents and supporters and this status quo was bolstered by the west. The west largely paid for Hamas weapons and tunnel network.
This all puts Israel in a precarious position to occupy and denazify the neighboring region itself and hope for slow change over time. Or the areas could be left to their own devices with only Qatari and Iranian aid and Israel doing what it needs to to guarantee its security. It’s only a complex situation because of anti semitism Israel rejectionism which is against all the needs of the Palestinians other than murderous hatred to replace any failings or desires with a eliminiationist dream when it’s obvious the age of Aquarius or freedom or prosperity would not be ushered in thereafter. They don’t need to be western but they can’t be terrorists and support terrorism. That includes against dissenters and gay people and women etc. I’m not holding out for a 180 but these impulses and practices can moderate. Hamas banned a women’s marathon. Maybe they were afraid they would flee. You have to notice the inversion. Hamas throws pa people off the roof and Israel is throwing Palestinians off the roof. Everything Hamas has done Israel is accused of. Or it didn’t happen. Israel is fighting a war that has to be fought. I vehemently disagree goals aren’t achievable. I think when a country or in this case proto state loses horribly views change. That’s why support for Hamas goes down in Gaza but is high in West Bank. It’s all nice to have megalomaniacal fantasies of extermination until the roosters come home to roost. I don’t think the average Palestinian thinks October 7th was invented I think people who don’t live there are prone to absorb and disseminate this nonsense.
Israel has done enormous damage to Gaza but it’s a small fraction of what they could’ve done and it is not a scandal or even close in comparison to other armed conflicts and wars. No one wants to compare it except to select slices bits versus the whole. Israel is a moral fighter but war is an evil just sometimes a necessary one. Israel isn’t only fighting Hamas. It’s fighting its support network. Regular civilians. You can ignore polls and videos of civilians participating in looting violence and kidnapping but a safe bet would be somewhere in the 80% support zone. That number isn’t solid obviously bc people are terrorized by Hamas but let’s not hold illusions that’s why Israel is in the situation it’s in. You’d have to be blind and deaf and dumb to think Palestinians as a group not all individuals are against Hamas. Of course the kids are victims of indoctrination from a young age. I’m not keen on killing people for their views but anyone who participated in Oct 7 or anything to aid Hamas in their violence is not garnering sympathy from me period. Only w hypocrisy to the highest degree can you have a group occupying hospitals using human shields strapping bombs to kids and all you do is find fault with the country trying to defeat them and if you do compare you attribute barbaric acts to desperation. They’re desperate to end an occupation they could’ve ended many times it was ended in Gaza. No problem w the full Egyptian blockade but a problem w the partial Israel one which is entirely validated given the constant abuse of mixed use material by Hamas. They even confiscate food aid and sell it at extortionate levels. But look away because Israel. I don’t share your reservations about defeating Hamas and sending a strong message. The issue is does Israel have the resolve. And what after. And I wouldn’t waste any mental space about well they’re being radicalized. Seriously? My Question is having seen Oct 7 and reading memri.org how much more radicalized can they get?
I agree pretty well with most of what you've written here, my only reservation being that you seem to suggest both Iran and Qatar are part of the solution in Gaza, post war? I would strongly suggest that both Qatar and Iran are major parts of the problem, not the solution. Also, as a general observation both to yourself and others, everything seems focussed on Israel and Gaza but this war is a multifront war, of which Hamas and PIJ in Gaza are only Iranian pawns.
Europe is putting itself in a precarious position some exceptions with their green energy policies. And notice the non dent in global average temp (what is the point of a policy that excludes China and India) and fuel is more money and less reliable. It’s a loser all around and eco people are mostly phonies and frauds as far as I’m concerned. Biden came to Venezuela for oil Venezuela a failed communist state with a western hostile rolex wearing dictator Europe goes to Russia, enough said. This is how we’re fixing things not like France with nuclear energy. It takes bill gates and his high energy ai projects to build a nuclear reactor. I think part of why Trump was elected wasn’t Iran specifically for most people but rather the unserious foreign policy which is NOT isolationist (you’ll always have those advocates. I myself find it unconvincing for the same reason I find pure libertarianism unconvincing. You’ll pay it’s just a matter of when and how much. Naturally this does not extend to any and every intervention or alliance) but the American policy has been with the exception of a brief Trump interregnum ACCOMMODATIONIST w drastic results. I hope Trump continues his policy of weakening Iran and that the Houthis are sent a very unmistakeable message that they don’t control the open seas. My point wasn’t that Iran isn’t a sworn enemy of the west it is (the govt) and that Qatar isn’t an ally and shouldn’t be there for Middle East credibility but they are but rather that they’re not going to stop funding the likes of terror groups and maybe with Qatar there is some small nod to Palestinian welfare (I’m convinced it’s not a big nod bc best case they know where most of this aid is going) but if that’s the case that will not be sufficient to get where we are now. Not having huge western aid (should all be with enforced conditions) will choke off some of the lifeblood of terror planning as will controlling the poorly controlled weapons flow from Egypt (smuggling) and wrecking as many tunnels as possible not easy. We have no power to stop Iran and Qatar from funding what they fund we can only make it harder to do. We do have questionable allies but there are times you get in bed with the worst like Stalin in ww2 because you need to so trying to work with “allies” that also have their own intense interests diverging from ours is tricky. Right now there’s nothing to do with Iran but weaken it. Qatar maybe but very provisionally and cautiously. America has a huge problem playing what they like to call 4D chess. America also has a huge problem with Iranian and Chinese spies, corrupt woke one party leadership in our security services(and who knows how far it flows down bc people tend to leave or not apply when they can’t handle the management) and a lack of capable people who didn’t just study the Mideast but were born there lived there or were otherwise steeped in the culture but appreciate and prefer the west for values centered around liberty and progress. I think America would’ve benefited from some of our afghani allies versus sowing chaos and throwing many of these people to the wolves. I think the effect of the afghan withdrawal as much as it was negatively publicized is understated. It was done inexcusably hastily and turned into a huge mess where the Taliban were able to sell it as a victory and the imperial nations saw not only a lack of American mettle but literally bolting with the tail between the legs and a lack of loyalty frankly. This does figure into calculations of other world leaders.
"Israel’s wars always end in a few months. They would never fight a war longer than necessary." From my point of view, Israel has fought wars for less time than necessary in the past, failing to win decisive victories and leaving people with the idea that the country will deal only with the proximate problem, not the underlying cause. Now that Israel is at last going for the greater win, it is a bit strange for someone who claims to support the Israeli project to get upset that some people are being mean about it.
"They've fought for less time than necessary" - I've heard this argument a few times in the last year, from completely reasonable people. I mean, maybe easy to say in hindsight...but war is hell for anyone involved and Israel's goal has always been to minimize the total casualties. If I had a family member in uniform, I wouldn't want a war to go on 1 day longer than it needed to...but again, a lot of that is only known in the future through hindsight.
"Securing the release of the hostages needed to be the main focus from Day 1."
I am not Israeli, I am not even Jewish (just my wife), so I have to confess to having somewhat limited knowledge here—but I have wonder if this is true or if it even makes sense.
Wouldn't prioritizing the release of the hostages just lead to another Gilad Shalit situation where hundreds of terrorists, many with Jewish blood on their hands, are given their freedom to plot more attacks? How many more Sinwars are sitting in Israel prisons waiting to take their revenge? And we know any hostage release would require these people being freed by the hundreds and we know they will be planning terrorist attacks as soon as they can.
I do understand the plight of Jews in the West—my wife and my Jewish family deal with all these explosions of Jew hate every day—and I also understand that it seems there will be another generation of Palestinians coming right behind the current one who are raised on Jew hate and will give their lives to attacking Israel. But that being said, I think the total destruction of Hamas has to be the main goal and has to be pursued no matter how long it takes. Hamas brought this upon themselves, Hamas has committed crimes that make them enemies of humanity and they need to be extinguished as much as Nazis or Confederates did, and also: maybe if it becomes recognized that the price of the Eternal Infatada is the total destruction of their territory, maybe (just maybe) the Palestinians will finally figure out that peaceful coexistence is their only way forward.
I realize it's easy for me to say these things as I am not Jewish and don't live in Israel, but the Islamo-Leftist alliance needs to be crushed, and letting Hamas survive will only embolden them. The sad truth is that Jews will be hated no matter what, so they might as well destroy their enemies and let them sit in rubble long enough that maybe they come to their senses.
A lot of Jews share your views. You come off as far more educated on this issue than most. So I'll talk to you as if you're one of us.
One of the things that upsets me about the response that I am typically getting to this article is "but Hamas must be destroyed!" I am under no illusions that Hamas must be taken out of power - but no one can really define what "destroyed" really means, at least to the point where the war can be over. I think that's deliberate on Bibi's part as it's clear to me at this point that he is deliberately dragging out the war. And in many ways, that goal appears to run counter to getting the hostages back.
Thanks! I love being talked to as being "one of us", being considered Jewish makes me feel like I just gained at least 10 IQ points! ;)) (I am from Queens NYC and went to summer camp at Kutshers in the Catskills, so I've been around Jews my whole life.)
As an American of a certain age, I do know that Netanyahu has been around quite awhile now, that he is a conservative and very polarizing. (My wife's family is from the Main Line PA, so we even know some people who knew him in his younger days.) But I have to confess ignorance about the full reality of Israel politics and the specifics of his recent actions and political machinations.
I think the one objection I have here (which is maybe more intellectual than moral or political) is that I see my Jewish friends publicly vehemently denouncing him, as issuing some denunciation of either him or of Israel or of the IDF (or some combo thereof) has now become the mandatory minimum that's required for liberal Jews to not be attacked. And this makes me wonder how bad or wrong etc he may be or if he is painted this way as a way for Jews in the West to save face and ease their social pressure. As I said, I don't know enough to answer that, but I've become a bit skepical about attacks on him, as I see people making them all the time who know less about Israeli politics than even I do. (Hope that makes sense.)
But my overall main feeling is that it's important for the Jewish state to survive and to thrive combined with an appreciation of Israel for fighting and killing the theocratic terrorists of Hamas and Hezbollah, while Western liberals cower and hide behind platitudes. I do agree that at some point pursuing peace will become more important than pursuing war, but I can't say I know when that moment will arrive. Thanks for your piece.
Thank you for your thoughtful contributions - they actually mean more coming from an "outsider" (although you're at least half Jewish from my perspective! haha). You definitely raise some interesting points - I'm going to focus on one: "issuing some denunciation of either him or of Israel or of the IDF (or some combo thereof) has now become the mandatory minimum that's required for liberal Jews to not be attacked."
This is absolutely a major issue among Jews like me. They feel compelled to express views that will enable them to maintain membership in their "circles." I mean much of it is genuine - many both here and in Israel really do believe that he's a completely failed leader. It's really no different than saying you think Trump sucks with that same group of people. Put it to you this way: do you think the left's attacks on Trump are "wrong"? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. Same issue with Bibi.
—do you think the left's attacks on Trump are "wrong"?
I think Trump is a deranged babbling buffoon who I can't listen to for more than 2 mins without making my skin crawl, yet at the same time I also cringe at all the hysteria of his opponents, that he's a Nazi fascist etc. I can understand hating Trump and I can understand voting for him, though I will never do either.
And I do see the similarity (though I can't imagine that Bibi uses the same stupid ugly language), and I have been cornered by friends demanding that I denounce Trump, but I think the main difference I see is that my wife and her family and friends are asked/demanded to denounce Bibi in a much more heated pointed way—denounce him, denounce the war, denounce Zionism etc—that simply never occurs with other ethnic or religious groups. Muslims in America are never intimidated into denouncing their various Ayatollahs and Chinese the same with their govt and its crimes.
I'm not Jewish, but once you see the special way Jews are attacked and what is demanded of them and how the Jewish state has become the world's pariah, I become more sensitive and paranoid than Philip Roth!
But to maybe get us back to where we started, I think Trump governed the first time more or less like a mainstream conservative (except for his erratic juvenile behavior), and the only thing I can think of that he did that no mainstream conservative would do was his "Muslim ban"—banning immigration from Muslim countries.
Which I think speaks to this fault line in the West: how do we deal with people from other countries (esp Muslim) that have no experience w liberal values and are often beholden to hateful theocratic anti-Western anti-Jewish ideologies? Of course we in America are far away from the frontlines here, unlike Israel, but in the current post-10/7 environment I'm leaning my support toward the politicians who at least accept and address this issue, as opposed to the liberals who deny it.
Hope this makes sense!
So just so we’re clear - denouncing Bibi is not the same thing as denouncing the war and it’s definitely not the same as denouncing Zionism. And yes, we’ve seen many examples this past year especially of Jews doing all of the above in their effort to maintain membership in their circles (the clearest example I can think of was the Oscar winner’s speech for that Holocaust film—I’m blanking on the names of both—where he slammed Israel).
Yes, some of the rhetoric just comes from ignorance of Israeli history, etc. and they’re just going by what they’ve heard from the media and from JVP types — but in that regard, they’re no different from the non-Jews engaging in the same behavior. It’s definitely possible to have a reasoned discussion about all of these things (Bibi, the war, and yes even Zionism), it’s just that few people want to, they would rather resort to tired platitudes.
BiBi is not being allowed by the Biden government to actually finish the war!
Look at Ukraine! Did you know that Zelenskyy had already signed an agreement with Putin to end the war on April 30,2022 when Biden told Boris Johnson the then PM of UK to go to Kyiv and ask Zelenskyy to tear up the agreement and carry on the war that US, UK and NATO would help to win the war ?
It's very naive and sorry, but very clear that you do not live in Israel. You cannot imagine the complexity of what is going on. None of us ever feels safe. We do not want the release of more terrorists to kill us. Yes my heart breaks for the hostages and everyone else every day, and yes I would have done the same as their relatives to try to release them. Yes, I realise i'm a hypocrite. The solution was for gazans to release them, many hostages were in civilian homes some time or the other. Putting blame on Netanyahu is trying to distract the blame from rapists killers and kidnappers.
You are right, I don't live in Israel--and I'm absolutely allowed to have an opinion on this issue. I live in the diaspora where we have seen troubling amounts of antisemitism since this war broke out. Do you honestly think that Israelis are the only ones who view this as "complex"? And yes, Bibi does share some responsibility for the continuation of the war - not the same type of responsibility as the Hamas psychopaths who started it, but he shares some of the responsibility for ending it. That is true for any world leader on the side of any war.
If you only noticed the antisemitism now, then congratulations, you've had a good life! And I do not mean this in a tongue in cheek way, but really it is a blessing. You were lucky, most were not in various degrees. Israel has nothing to do with it. There was a hatred before and there will be a hatred after. Yes, it's distressing to accept, no one wants to, we self delude to survive but the courage is to accept reality, not find another jew to blame. The myth of "good jew" was made to put one against the other. You'd both be killed equally in Gaza.
To borrow your words: that is very naive and sorry, it’s clear you do not live in the diaspora of this is what you’re assuming about me.
I live in the diaspora as well and have been shocked by the antisemitism. However, targeting diaspora Jews based on an Israeli war is the result of pure bigotry and nothing else. It’s also part of Iranian and Hamas propaganda. Not for one second did I ever blame Israel for the rise of antisemitism here. I believe the war is just but even if I didn’t, the fact that people are targeting diaspora Jews just shows the outrage has nothing to do with Israel. It’s just another pretext for justifying Jew hatred. Putting even one iota of responsibility onto Israel for increasing antisemitism plays right into terroristic propaganda and shouldn’t be entertained by anyone. Do you ever wonder why you don’t see random Russian Americans targeted for the war in Ukraine, or Chinese Americans targeted for the crimes of China? It’s the same reason you didn’t protest outside a mosque on 10/8. Because doing so would be clear bigotry, and nothing else.
I don’t blame Israel for the antisemitism, but I do blame Bibi for prolonging the war stoking it—and there is a difference.
How is PM Netanyahu "prolonging the war" and "stoking it"? Hamas is prolonging the war by refusing to negotiate a cease-fire short of Israeli capitulation, surely? The Biden administration has prolonged the war by tying the IDF's hands behind their backs and making Israel conform to standards of warfare that frankly no other country including the USA would ever even contemplate adhering to. Leading US military people like John Spencer, Chair of Urban War Studies at West Point, and others state quite clearly that the expectations placed upon Israel are both unreasonable and unreachable. The war could have been over long ago if it weren't for US meddling. And, frankly, the notion that Bibi is prolonging and stoking the war fits nicely with Hamas propaganda, not to mention leftist hatchet jobs on his character.
Amazing. And not in the good way. You evidently don't think "all eyes on Rafa" and biden's threats to withhold arms shipments had anything to do with prolonging the war.
Israel is beholding to America for many of its weapon systems. That is a double edged sword that is too often held over Israel's neck to please American political calculations.
With Trump now US President-elect and the Abraham Accords still American policy from his last term, does it ever seem to anyone that Gaza is being turned into a big highway with Jared Kushner planning real estate development along Gaza´s Mediterranean border? I was saddened to hear last week that an Israeli construction worker deployed to bulldoze bloated bodies killed himself rather than go back to do it again.
It wouldn't surprise me if that plan that you are referencing re: Kushner is already in the works courtesy of our new President-elect.
That´s the way it looks and feels. So saddening.
You’re wrong. More propaganda.
It was a question!
This is a quagmire with no easy answers. Israel lost the PR war in the West, but I think that loss was already in place thanks to the useful idiots of JVP and other like-minded dupes. It's no secret that Hamas couldn't build expansive tunnels--designed with entrances and exits under strategic soft targets of schools, mosques, hospitals, and other such community centers that should never be attacked--but more to the point, never should be used as shields for terrorist bent on destroying Israel. So when Israel bombs a known nest of Hamas terrorists, and it just *happens* to be under a kindergarten, well...time for JVP to whip up the outrage against Israel.
There is no question that everything you posit about Netenyahu is spot on. He could have and should have done more right up front. But we are dealing with terrorists, who don't believe in negotiation. Just death, and at the expense of their own people. Dead Palestinians make for more global hatred against Israel overall, and Jews everywhere by proxy. Hamas and their backers in Iran and elsewhere have a keen knowledge on how to exploit wordwide antisemitism to their best advantage. I disagree with you about Golda Meir's words. It seems to me that they are just as relevant as ever. Hamas--and the rest of the world--would love for an Israel ceasefire. Within a week after any ceasefire (if that long), Hamas would be implementing a strategy that mostly likely is already in place. They know public sentiment is on their side as long as they can whip up more hatred for Israel and the diaspora. That's why their outposts are beneath carefully-chosen locations. How dare Israel bomb a school!
How dare Hamas use Iranian money to build up a tunnel system for continued attacks on Israel, rather than help the people Hamas claims to be defending.
Hamas wants a state of perpetual war. They know Israel is the eternal "bad guy." Witness all the "protests" around the world on the night of October 7, 2023, when Israel hadn't fired a shot into Gaza--they were too busy accounting for the dead, dead that the world didn't care about as was demonstrated time and again in the days and weeks and months that followed. Every Jew was put on notice. Either atone for Israel or else.
Israel has been under attack long before 1948. Had they not fought back, then and now, it would cease to be. And we would cease to be without it. Netenyahu is using the slaughter of October 7 to his own means. He needs to go, with a more reasoned leader in his place. But even then, would Hamas quit? Never. That's a cold, hard reality.
I think that unfortunately there is very little room for manoeuvre. He believes that only force will achieve the release of hostages and sadly he is right unless Israel stops the war and they claim victory while regaining the control of Gaza. Backed by Iranian money, by international money and Qarar money they will resume their deadly fight to eradicate Israel while the Muslim Brothers will continue organizing pogroms around the world before attacking the rest of non muslim population in Western democracies. We are in for a hundred-years war and we cannot escape fighting this aggressive Islamist endeavor of conquest. Israel is just the tip of the iceberg !!!!!
I am not sure that Hamas was EVER ready to release the hostages. What incentive did they ever have? The only circumstance that might convince them to release hostages was the cessation of war. And then what ? They would claim victory, retain the control of Gaza and do it again. Ghazi , one of their leaders said it clearly. We will repeat october 7 again and again until we erase the sionist entity for good . They can’t be accused of acting hypocritically….. so Israel has no choice but destroying the military capacity of Hamas even if we all have to lose some of our soul while our hostages die every day, just like our soldiers who search house after house to minimize civilian casualties. Israel has no choice.
What will happen next cannot be determined in an abstract way. It will depend on the political situation prevailing then in the region, in particular what will happen in Iran. What will Trump decide to do about the mollahs will be decisive. If Israel and the US destroy the nuclear capacities of Iran the whole Middle East and the whole Western world will breathe more easily. And only then will it be possible to see what is the best path to take for dealing with Gaza. In the framework of resuming the Abraham Agreements , Saoudi Arabia might accept to manage a protectorate over Gaza for a decade or two to deradicalize the gazaouis .
But sure, I am dreaming . But you surely also remember Martin Luther King « I have a dream » . I believe in the power of dreams .
Are you worried about a bad reflection on you or about the lives of your fellow Jews? Because what I hear is more about you. But I would probably start with a simple question: what does “liberal” Jew mean opposing to a Jew?
I do not understand your question.
What part?
And how would you get the hostages back.
Your arrogance must answer with an alternative other than blaming the legally elected.
Israeli citizens want victory.
What do you want?
I want the hostages back, Hamas out of power, the war to end. Tell me, what does “victory” mean to you? It’s a subjective concept.
The question is, HOW would you get the hostages back? What conditions would have to obtain before Hamas was ready to give them up alive?
Wish I knew!
And that's the problem. To claim that Bibi is doing the wrong thing, you need to show that there is something better to be doing.
Right now, under his leadership, Israel has seriously reduced the danger from both Hamas and Hezbollah, and weakened Iran. This has actually brought praise from Arabs in Syria and Lebanon, who have also seen Hezbollah as their enemy. It has also brought praise from many Iranians.
As a result, he is currently much more popular in Israel than previously. What Israelis experience is very different from what those of us in the Diaspora see (other than those of us with Israeli relatives).
In general, a war continues as long as at least one side wants it to. A cease fire just gives the losing side time to rearm. Israel has made that mistake with Hamas many times. It would be irresponsible for Bibi to end this war without rendering Hamas unable to launch other than minimal attacks - and without preventing it and UNRWA from indocrinating future generations of Gazans to hate Jews all over the world.
I’m wondering if Israel will take back Gaza since the Palestinians have only had it since 2005. As for Netanyahu, I’ve seen Israeli protests for years trying to get him out of office.
I wouldn’t want that cursed territory back for any amount of money.
Jill, I've appreciated your perspective at times, but I feel like this piece is indulging in Netanyahu Derangement Syndrome. I have a beef with him, but it's not about the war effort - it's entirely about Israeli domestic policy and the devil's bargain he made with the religious right.
I beg you to read and listen to Israelis like Haviv Rettig Gur, Micah Goodman, and Einat Wilf. Or check out The Strong Horse by Lee Smith to deepen your understanding of Israel's neighbors. The American liberal, multicultural perspective is dangerous when applied in Israel. Look at the tragedy of the peace-minded kibbutzniks living in the Gaza envelope who were massacred so horrifically in part because their Palestinian "friends" and employees gave detailed maps to Hamas. They were the most compassionate, the most hopeful Israeli Jews, and the butchers of Gaza did not care.