Maybe one day he will read this article and change his POV. Or change his POV by someone else Jewish or not speaking out about it. This is how we grow and learn. I agree it doesn't happen to all of us all the time, but some people do change even if it takes decades. It's the drip, drip, drip of hearing the same thing from possibly a number of other people that finally opens a new way of thinking for each of us. We're all guilty of this, the subject just varies.
My grandfather went to work in the coal mines at age 10. Around 1890? 12 hour days, six days a week, 52 weeks a year. One extra day off at Christmas and Easter. This was my Dad’s Dad. My Mom’s Dad was Jewish. Likely her Mom was too. But nobody knows 100%. They converted around 1900. If my Mom’s mom was Jewish, I would be. My Dad injured in WWII, 100 disabled, which resulted in us being homeless twice for extended times and numerous other times for a week or so. I lived in 18 places by the time I was 18.
Oops. ….by the time I was 18. So if I am Jewish it didn’t make me wealthy, did it? And now by most standards I have done well. Most would say I am wealthy. Nothing to do with being Jewish though. I relied on a time tested method. Work hard, take great calculated risks, save, don’t be a big shot. And all that accounted for 10% of my wealth. The rest, the other 90%? Blind luck. Which you can’t beat.
"But Jews have always been very good at working themselves up to a level of comfort and wealth — always through grit and hard work." You cannot make blanket statements like that (both positive and negative) about an entire group of people. It is always proven false upon any sort of scrutiny. Hello, Bernie Madoff! "We're not racist, we're just better than everybody else!" is a racist statement.
Very different from "We are proud of ourselves, and we love our people!". Looking down on other demographics won't help anybody. We can't hate our way out of a bad situation. Has antisemitism benefited the (deceased) people of Palestine?
You’re making the same uniformed assumptions about Jewish people that the “friend” in the article made. Bernie Madoff is a stupid example - he stole from fellow Jews more than anyone else - and can you cite his upbringing as proof of any privilege?
I didn’t site him as proof of privilege at all, as I wasn’t talking about privilege. I didn’t make any blanket statement about any ethnicity. That is my point. There will always be people who are outside a stereotype, both better and worse. And you didn’t even refute my statement, since you haven’t listed any uninformed assumptions that you are referring to. It seems like you simply ignored nearly everything I had to say so that you could establish a position.
Then let me be clearer: “we’re not racist, we’re just better than everybody else!” and “Looking down on other demographics” - are you not attributing this to Jews? While stereotypes can be dangerous, one can often see characteristics that apply to a majority of a group. For example, of Jews who immigrated to the US in the early 20th century, a small number had already accumulated some wealth elsewhere, but the vast majority had virtually nothing. That’s not a blanket statement, it is a reflection of overall (majority) truth. For all we know, Madoffs parents were those poor Jews
No, then I misspoke. I apologize. I do NOT mean all Jewish people. I mean people that engage in openly Jewish Supremacist rhetoric, as it wouldn’t make much sense for anybody other than the Jewish community to say it. I see more and more of it on Substack. The “master race” rhetoric is increasing, blending in with “God’s Chosen People”. The worst possible response to antisemitism would be more racism.
She specifically said, “Jews/[submit any race] have always been good at working themselves up - always through grit and hard work” is self-serving and incorrect. It is assigning character to race. Culture influences character, not race. Just like if I used the words “never have been good at working themselves up” or some other pejorative, that would be self-hating and false. For example, being proud of myself doesn’t mean that I need to lower anybody else.
As someone deeply embedded in Jewish culture and society, I can tell you that supremacist thinking is NOT prevalent in Jewish communities. Yes, the Jewish people HAVE lifted themselves up time and again through perseverance and hard work - while being attacked and oppressed. We are indeed proud of our accomplishments - outsized to our population, but it can appear to outsiders as boasting/supremacy when it is in fact a plea to the world to treat us decently, as we have contributed positively to humanity despite humanity’s cruelty to us. Haters are quick to assign characteristics to us based on lies. We do indeed have specific characteristics, positive ones IMO, shaped by our culture and by outside forces determined to destroy us.
Not all Jews are rich or smart or entrepreneurial. Just like the Chinese. However overall both groups do a great job of working hard, getting good educations, strong family life and preserving their culture. Neither group lives off their government.
However, at least in the case of Jews, we believe in a social safety net & compassion for those who need it. Caveat: not sure whether or not the Orthodox believe in the public social safety net, but I’m pretty sure they believe in assisting those in their communities who need help.
"One of the facts about himself that he told me is that he is a socialist and empathises with poor people"
Has this uninformed friend never heard of the Jewish Labour Movement? The oldest affiliated society to the UK Labour Party. Its aim is to organize and sustain a political movement of Jewish people within the UK Labour Party and the international labour movement. It seeks to maintain and promote Labour or Socialist Zionism as the movement for the self-determination of the Jewish people within Israel, while also supporting, developing, and promoting political activists who advance the objectives and values of the Jewish Labour Movement.
The defence of working hard to achieve wealth does not typically impress socialists. They don't care how the wealth was accrued, only that it was, which for them means as the expense of others. Theirs is a zero-sum lowest common denominator ideology. It is evil.
"...an oppressive, racist regime, which I understand but doesn’t relate to, owing to my own knowledge and personal experience as a British-Israeli dual national..."
What do you mean you understand? It's patently false. Sorry, but to me it sounds like you're not strong enough in your convictions nor your identity, and the name of your Substack is misleading. You sound apologetic and groveling for friendship. I know that sounds harsh, but honestly, sister, why would you capitulate like that, and why would you want his friendship?
I replied below to a commentor who was complaining about the negative impact the UK Jewish Labour Movement was making. I'm replicating my reply here because I think this is an example of where too many of us readers read or reply to things without enough clarity or context. We just click Like, Reply or don't Comment. Here are some stats about the JLM that I quickly found. I knew before and to my surprise there are not many Jews in in the UK, especially as a % of the total population. UK - 292K so < .5% of ttl population. Canada (my country) has 335K so < 1% of total population. USA 5.8 million so 2.4% of the population. There are ONLY 350 Jewish members in the UK Jewish Labour Movement, the other 450 members are non-Jews. IMO this is hardly enough to change the face of the UK or the ZIONIST movement. See https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/how-labours-claim-of-countering-antisemitism-has-resulted-in-a-purge-of-jews/#:~:text=JVL%20represents%20some%20350%20Jewish%20Labour%20Party%20members.,of%20who%20have%20left%20the%20Party%20in%20despair.
We Jews are neither a race nor an ethnicity. We are a religious people.
The land of Israel was given to us by God as described the Torah
There are no such people as Palestinians and country of Palestine. If you can find an historical reference to them prior to 1967 please provide it.
Palestina is the name created by the Romans in about 77 AD after the destruction of the second temple and the murder of all the Jews. The land was generically called Palestine but essential deserted for centuries thereafter with various tribes of Arabs and Jews scattered across. For instance see Mark Twains book of 1878.
Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran and was not considered a holy city until 1948 when Israel was created. The dome of the rock was not originally built as a mosque
Well, I'm not even Jewish, although much of my family is, but I recently took the initiative and ended a friendship because my former friend was critical of Israel. Was I being uppity? Yes. Do I care? No. People who choose to be dumb (meaning NOT those who can't help being where they are on the spectrum) are not worthy of our time. My former friend lost more than I did. Your former friend lost far more than you did. You lost nothing.
No offense your friend is a jack ass. How wrong to assume all Jews are wealthy. They very word ghetto comes from the Jews oppression. Growing up in a very ethnic, multi cultural city outside of Boston Jews were immigrants early on. Jokes were made about every ethnic person Jews, Irish, Italian, Spanish, whites and blacks. Just the way it was. Jews of course were known to make and have money and were very frugal. All through hard work and right choices. I remember the Jewish gentleman paying for his weekly newspaper in pennies. It was funny! But we knew those were stero-types and not true at all. To make your way through society you have to recognize the differences in each other and respect an individual for who they are. But your story reminds me of the way white people have been attacked and assumptions made based on skin color. I’m the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s Americans worked hard to move away from labels and seeing each other just based on skin color and looks. We watched all in the Family, lived through civil rights marches, and supported rights for women and gay people. We already locked down on religious freedoms and free speech. But after all that look where we are. Like, where does your friend get off. He doesn’t realize he is actually the intolerant one and the very thing he accuses you of. He lives in a bubble and echo chamber. What he is essentially saying is I’m a good person and I stand for what’s right and I’m too fragile to be friends with you because you might open my eyes. You don’t grow as a human being living in a bubble. It’s your experiences and meeting lots of people and being open to everyone that you grow.
I’m sorry this happened. I know it must have hurt a lot to think you know someone and then they abandon you. But was he really your friend? Did he take you on your own terms and character or just judge by his societal echo chamber.
Someone who doesn’t like Jews is a racist plain and simple.
Jews work hard. Perpetual lazy victim wanna bes hate that. Jews succeed because they learn and work hard. We will win.
You are spending too much time defending your jewishness as if it needs defending.
This man is plainly an antisemite and is not worth your friendship.
Maybe one day he will read this article and change his POV. Or change his POV by someone else Jewish or not speaking out about it. This is how we grow and learn. I agree it doesn't happen to all of us all the time, but some people do change even if it takes decades. It's the drip, drip, drip of hearing the same thing from possibly a number of other people that finally opens a new way of thinking for each of us. We're all guilty of this, the subject just varies.
My grandfather went to work in the coal mines at age 10. Around 1890? 12 hour days, six days a week, 52 weeks a year. One extra day off at Christmas and Easter. This was my Dad’s Dad. My Mom’s Dad was Jewish. Likely her Mom was too. But nobody knows 100%. They converted around 1900. If my Mom’s mom was Jewish, I would be. My Dad injured in WWII, 100 disabled, which resulted in us being homeless twice for extended times and numerous other times for a week or so. I lived in 18 places by the time I was 18.
Oops. ….by the time I was 18. So if I am Jewish it didn’t make me wealthy, did it? And now by most standards I have done well. Most would say I am wealthy. Nothing to do with being Jewish though. I relied on a time tested method. Work hard, take great calculated risks, save, don’t be a big shot. And all that accounted for 10% of my wealth. The rest, the other 90%? Blind luck. Which you can’t beat.
Thx. Some people may call it luck, others call it being fully prepared for when opportunity knocks.
Both sides from Wales. Mom, Kidwelly. Dad, Pennycraig/Tonnypandy.
Reuben….where in Wales are you from?
I'm not. Sorry...I don't follow this line of questioning. If it makes any difference, I studied in Llanelli.
"But Jews have always been very good at working themselves up to a level of comfort and wealth — always through grit and hard work." You cannot make blanket statements like that (both positive and negative) about an entire group of people. It is always proven false upon any sort of scrutiny. Hello, Bernie Madoff! "We're not racist, we're just better than everybody else!" is a racist statement.
Very different from "We are proud of ourselves, and we love our people!". Looking down on other demographics won't help anybody. We can't hate our way out of a bad situation. Has antisemitism benefited the (deceased) people of Palestine?
You’re making the same uniformed assumptions about Jewish people that the “friend” in the article made. Bernie Madoff is a stupid example - he stole from fellow Jews more than anyone else - and can you cite his upbringing as proof of any privilege?
I didn’t site him as proof of privilege at all, as I wasn’t talking about privilege. I didn’t make any blanket statement about any ethnicity. That is my point. There will always be people who are outside a stereotype, both better and worse. And you didn’t even refute my statement, since you haven’t listed any uninformed assumptions that you are referring to. It seems like you simply ignored nearly everything I had to say so that you could establish a position.
Then let me be clearer: “we’re not racist, we’re just better than everybody else!” and “Looking down on other demographics” - are you not attributing this to Jews? While stereotypes can be dangerous, one can often see characteristics that apply to a majority of a group. For example, of Jews who immigrated to the US in the early 20th century, a small number had already accumulated some wealth elsewhere, but the vast majority had virtually nothing. That’s not a blanket statement, it is a reflection of overall (majority) truth. For all we know, Madoffs parents were those poor Jews
No, then I misspoke. I apologize. I do NOT mean all Jewish people. I mean people that engage in openly Jewish Supremacist rhetoric, as it wouldn’t make much sense for anybody other than the Jewish community to say it. I see more and more of it on Substack. The “master race” rhetoric is increasing, blending in with “God’s Chosen People”. The worst possible response to antisemitism would be more racism.
She specifically said, “Jews/[submit any race] have always been good at working themselves up - always through grit and hard work” is self-serving and incorrect. It is assigning character to race. Culture influences character, not race. Just like if I used the words “never have been good at working themselves up” or some other pejorative, that would be self-hating and false. For example, being proud of myself doesn’t mean that I need to lower anybody else.
As someone deeply embedded in Jewish culture and society, I can tell you that supremacist thinking is NOT prevalent in Jewish communities. Yes, the Jewish people HAVE lifted themselves up time and again through perseverance and hard work - while being attacked and oppressed. We are indeed proud of our accomplishments - outsized to our population, but it can appear to outsiders as boasting/supremacy when it is in fact a plea to the world to treat us decently, as we have contributed positively to humanity despite humanity’s cruelty to us. Haters are quick to assign characteristics to us based on lies. We do indeed have specific characteristics, positive ones IMO, shaped by our culture and by outside forces determined to destroy us.
Thank you for that. I actually want to understand.
It’s refreshing to hear that. There are a whole lot of closed minds out there who have inverted the truth.
Not all Jews are rich or smart or entrepreneurial. Just like the Chinese. However overall both groups do a great job of working hard, getting good educations, strong family life and preserving their culture. Neither group lives off their government.
However, at least in the case of Jews, we believe in a social safety net & compassion for those who need it. Caveat: not sure whether or not the Orthodox believe in the public social safety net, but I’m pretty sure they believe in assisting those in their communities who need help.
"One of the facts about himself that he told me is that he is a socialist and empathises with poor people"
Has this uninformed friend never heard of the Jewish Labour Movement? The oldest affiliated society to the UK Labour Party. Its aim is to organize and sustain a political movement of Jewish people within the UK Labour Party and the international labour movement. It seeks to maintain and promote Labour or Socialist Zionism as the movement for the self-determination of the Jewish people within Israel, while also supporting, developing, and promoting political activists who advance the objectives and values of the Jewish Labour Movement.
Here's some statistics. There are not many Jews in the UK as a % of the total population. UK - 292K so < .5% of ttl population. Canada - 335K so < 1% of total population. USA 5.8 million so 2.4% of the population. There are ONLY 350 Jewish members in the UK Jewish Labour Movement, the other 450 members are non-Jews. Hardly enough to change the face of the UK or the ZIONIST movement. https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/how-labours-claim-of-countering-antisemitism-has-resulted-in-a-purge-of-jews/#:~:text=JVL%20represents%20some%20350%20Jewish%20Labour%20Party%20members.,of%20who%20have%20left%20the%20Party%20in%20despair.
"Jewish" Voice for Labour is not a reliable source, more like a Corbynite fan club...
https://www.thejc.com/news/features/what-is-jvl-the-jewish-voice-that-backs-corbyn-on-labour-antisemitism-ajwdkvz9
Well, to me this 'ex-friend' is locked in assumptions and in ideology, and honestly, is not capable of have true friendship. It's his lost. 🤍💙✡️
The defence of working hard to achieve wealth does not typically impress socialists. They don't care how the wealth was accrued, only that it was, which for them means as the expense of others. Theirs is a zero-sum lowest common denominator ideology. It is evil.
"...an oppressive, racist regime, which I understand but doesn’t relate to, owing to my own knowledge and personal experience as a British-Israeli dual national..."
What do you mean you understand? It's patently false. Sorry, but to me it sounds like you're not strong enough in your convictions nor your identity, and the name of your Substack is misleading. You sound apologetic and groveling for friendship. I know that sounds harsh, but honestly, sister, why would you capitulate like that, and why would you want his friendship?
I replied below to a commentor who was complaining about the negative impact the UK Jewish Labour Movement was making. I'm replicating my reply here because I think this is an example of where too many of us readers read or reply to things without enough clarity or context. We just click Like, Reply or don't Comment. Here are some stats about the JLM that I quickly found. I knew before and to my surprise there are not many Jews in in the UK, especially as a % of the total population. UK - 292K so < .5% of ttl population. Canada (my country) has 335K so < 1% of total population. USA 5.8 million so 2.4% of the population. There are ONLY 350 Jewish members in the UK Jewish Labour Movement, the other 450 members are non-Jews. IMO this is hardly enough to change the face of the UK or the ZIONIST movement. See https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/how-labours-claim-of-countering-antisemitism-has-resulted-in-a-purge-of-jews/#:~:text=JVL%20represents%20some%20350%20Jewish%20Labour%20Party%20members.,of%20who%20have%20left%20the%20Party%20in%20despair.
We Jews are neither a race nor an ethnicity. We are a religious people.
The land of Israel was given to us by God as described the Torah
There are no such people as Palestinians and country of Palestine. If you can find an historical reference to them prior to 1967 please provide it.
Palestina is the name created by the Romans in about 77 AD after the destruction of the second temple and the murder of all the Jews. The land was generically called Palestine but essential deserted for centuries thereafter with various tribes of Arabs and Jews scattered across. For instance see Mark Twains book of 1878.
Jerusalem is never mentioned in the Koran and was not considered a holy city until 1948 when Israel was created. The dome of the rock was not originally built as a mosque
We are a religion, a culture, and an ethnicity. One remains Jewish even when one doesn’t practice. It’s different from any other religion that way.
Right. I was trying to point out the things she left out of her column
From one Kaplan to another, gotcha 😉.
Well, I'm not even Jewish, although much of my family is, but I recently took the initiative and ended a friendship because my former friend was critical of Israel. Was I being uppity? Yes. Do I care? No. People who choose to be dumb (meaning NOT those who can't help being where they are on the spectrum) are not worthy of our time. My former friend lost more than I did. Your former friend lost far more than you did. You lost nothing.
❤️
No offense your friend is a jack ass. How wrong to assume all Jews are wealthy. They very word ghetto comes from the Jews oppression. Growing up in a very ethnic, multi cultural city outside of Boston Jews were immigrants early on. Jokes were made about every ethnic person Jews, Irish, Italian, Spanish, whites and blacks. Just the way it was. Jews of course were known to make and have money and were very frugal. All through hard work and right choices. I remember the Jewish gentleman paying for his weekly newspaper in pennies. It was funny! But we knew those were stero-types and not true at all. To make your way through society you have to recognize the differences in each other and respect an individual for who they are. But your story reminds me of the way white people have been attacked and assumptions made based on skin color. I’m the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s Americans worked hard to move away from labels and seeing each other just based on skin color and looks. We watched all in the Family, lived through civil rights marches, and supported rights for women and gay people. We already locked down on religious freedoms and free speech. But after all that look where we are. Like, where does your friend get off. He doesn’t realize he is actually the intolerant one and the very thing he accuses you of. He lives in a bubble and echo chamber. What he is essentially saying is I’m a good person and I stand for what’s right and I’m too fragile to be friends with you because you might open my eyes. You don’t grow as a human being living in a bubble. It’s your experiences and meeting lots of people and being open to everyone that you grow.
I’m sorry this happened. I know it must have hurt a lot to think you know someone and then they abandon you. But was he really your friend? Did he take you on your own terms and character or just judge by his societal echo chamber.